DEBORAH: Hi everyone. I’m Deborah Goldstein, founder of Enlightened Philanthropy and Co-Dean of Philanthropy for the Purposeful Planning Institute. Today is a follow-up to the podcasts I hosted last fall. The first was with Janelle Turner of Phila Engaged Giving, focusing on “philanthropy as a team sport.” The second was with Richard Marker of the Institute for Wise Philanthropy, exploring “choosing the right team.” And today I’m speaking with Betsy Erickson of Arabella Advisors and Stephanie Diamond of BBR Partners on the topic of building a collaborative team. This is a conversation I’ve wanted to have for a long time to help illustrate how philanthropy advisors collaborate with other advisors to support their clients. So let’s dive in. Betsy and Stephanie, thank you for joining me today.

BETSY: Thank you.

STEPHANIE: Thank you.

DEBORAH: You’re welcome. Thank you. Can you start by sharing what your roles are at your firms and who your clients are?

BETSY: Sure. So I had our family and individual practice at Arabella advisors. And Arabella is a national-level, 450-person consulting firm that specializes in all aspects of service to the world’s leading donors and nonprofits. And Arabella was started by a family philanthropist who was a next gen inheritor from an enterprise family, and he participated in his own family foundation, and also worked at an international NGO and worked in politics. And he really saw that there were a lot of missed opportunities for Strategic Systems change work, for collaboration between donors and for more efficient mechanisms to operate complex initiatives. And so we noticed that a lot of kind of impact was being squandered, but also a lot of motivation and goodwill to engage in philanthropy. And so decided to start this firm, and really had a vision for a very large firm that served lots of clients and was able to sort of capture really macro-level learnings that could be disseminated out, back out to clients through this sort of one stop shop platform of services. So we’ve been around for about 25 years, and my job has always been focused on the family and individual segment leading that practice, and I really make sure that our family and individual clients get a really kind of bespoke boutique feel that brings kind of expertise and family dynamics, experiential learning, really creative and engaging facilitation to help them get to really meaningful, personalized results, while also benefiting from partnering with a really large firm. And at Arabella, we have all kinds of clients. We’re working with family and individuals, obviously corporate clients, big institutional foundations for our family clients, it’s typically individuals, couples, multi-generational families, and they’re usually giving or planning to give, about a million dollars a year or more. And most are really navigating changes, and so they’re seeking support to manage through those changes, whether that’s a change in assets, a change and who’s sitting at their table, it might be they want to engage next gen, or they’ve lost a loved one and there’s sort of a shake up and and who’s participating, or maybe they’ve invited community members onto the board, or they might have wanted to change in their strategic direction and just be more mindful and thoughtful about how their gifts can add up to impact. So we come in to support all kinds of work like that over the short and the long term.

DEBORAH: Thank you. What a great overview. Stephanie?

STEPHANIE: Sure. Thanks, Deborah. It’s great to be here and great to be here with Betsy, who she and I have worked together on a variety of different projects and clients. So we’re looking forward to talking about our experiences today. I lead our philanthropy practice at BBR Partners, and BBR is a multifamily office that provides customized investment management and wealth management to ultra high net worth clients. We have offices around the country, although we’re based in New York and philanthropy is really core to our firm’s values. It’s giving back to the communities that we serve and helping our clients do the same I joined. And three years ago, as our clients were really beginning to think about, how do I have philanthropic impact? It was a shift from, “I’m charitable. I really care about tax minimization, and I’m going to focus on that,” to, “I’m getting older, and starting to think about retirement. I really want to think about how I can do things in a more robust, more strategic way, and so that can mean a variety of different things to our 180 clients. I think about myself really as a bridge and a dot connector for whatever it is that they’re looking for. Some of them might be thinking about clarifying their focus from just the sort of peanut buttering they’re giving to really thinking about four core strategic focus areas. Some of them are really looking for meaty projects that they want to dig into to make a difference in an area some are thinking about. And this really goes back to some of my former experience at Schwab charitable. How do I utilize charitable vehicles in the most effective way to achieve a broad set of philanthropic objectives? So again, I really start with wanting to do good discovery with our clients, and then connect them with that specific area of expertise. And we’ll talk about that more I know as we talk about collaboration and where our roles intersect.

DEBORAH: Yeah, that’s actually a perfect segue to our next question, Stephanie. Where do your roles intersect? You referred to working with Betsy during your tenure at BBR. So why don’t you tell me about those chances for collaboration you’ve had? 

STEPHANIE: Absolutely. I’ve known Arabella for years. I met their founder at a conference, where he spoke about family philanthropy and the importance of being strategic—thinking about a family’s giving as a whole while also considering each family member’s individual goals. He emphasized bringing these goals together in a way that also honors the unique needs of each family member. That conversation was pivotal for me and really inspired the work I do today. As I mentioned earlier, I see myself as a “dot connector,” starting with discovery and asking critical questions of the client, like, “What’s the money for?” and “What philanthropic impact do you want to have?” From there, I rely on the bench strength of others in specific areas where I may not have expertise. For a firm like Arabella, as Betsy described, they work with many families who have diverse needs, goals, and issue areas. Sometimes, clients require additional expertise, and that’s where collaboration comes in. One example is a client we worked with who wanted to shift their giving focus. Initially, their philanthropy was centered in their New York community, but they started to think more broadly, considering a wider community spanning multiple locations. They also shifted their focus to maternal health and mental health—areas requiring extensive research to identify gaps and core needs across the country. In a situation like that, I’d turn to someone like Betsy at Arabella. I’d say, “Based on the work you’ve done with families and your research, how can you support this client? Let’s work together on this.” There’s another nuanced aspect that Betsy and I discuss frequently: bringing together different domains of expertise to find the best and broadest solutions. From my perspective, there’s a significant opportunity to connect the financial aspect of giving with the philanthropic aspect. Even within my own role, I see this intersection often. Everyone in the PPI community knows the importance of asking, “What’s the money for?” If philanthropy is part of the answer, the next question becomes, “What philanthropic impact is the client looking to achieve?” For many of our clients, the initial focus has been on tax efficiency or financial goals, but eventually, we move toward philanthropic goals. What I love about my role is the ability to bring the financial piece full circle. For example, we first determine what the client wants to achieve, then assess what their portfolio can support. Next, we consult with a philanthropic advisor, like Betsy, who understands the nonprofit’s needs. This collaboration creates a comprehensive plan, aligning the client’s goals, their portfolio, the timing of their giving, the assets they’ll use, and the nonprofit’s requirements. This intersection of financial and philanthropic priorities has been a key area where Betsy and I have collaborated successfully. I think it’s a great example of how we can break down silos and integrate these aspects to achieve the best outcomes for clients.

DEBORAH: I really appreciate how you’ve shown how everything comes full circle. Betsy, could you step in here and share more about your role in that scenario?

BETSY:Yeah. Thanks. First of all, it’s such a joy to be speaking on the PPI Podcast. I’m a strong believer in the organization and the leadership role it plays in promoting the concept of de-siloing. It’s such a rich experience to connect with practitioners who share the same goals—providing great service to families and creating more collaborative, innovative solutions—while approaching it from different slices of the domain pie. This de-siloing is incredibly important, especially given the increasing complexities that our clients are facing. One of the things I’ve noticed in my tenure supporting philanthropic families is that challenges often emerge first in the philanthropy domain. That’s frequently where families come together to collaborate for the first time. For example, you might have a family that has operated with a traditional structure—parents or grandparents in leadership roles and children following suit. But when they come together to work collaboratively in philanthropy, they’re suddenly expected to operate as equals. If the table hasn’t been reset for this new dynamic, interesting (and sometimes challenging) dynamics can arise. This is where working with someone in Stephanie’s role becomes so valuable. In a family office or wealth advisory firm, there are often broader conversations about family health, wealth, and legacy. Topics like vehicle structuring, philanthropic strategies, and long-term goals are already being addressed. As Stephanie mentioned, having these thoughtful conversations early—ideally at the hub of a family’s planning—can shape stronger philanthropic outcomes and avoid issues later. I also find it so rewarding to collaborate in these scenarios. In philanthropy, we implement many strategies, so we often have a good pulse on what works and what doesn’t. Partnering with someone like Stephanie, who acts as a nexus or dot connector, allows us to share insights while also benefiting from her perspective. Stephanie, in turn, can bring in expertise from her world to bridge the financial and philanthropic sides. Fundamentally, if we see more collaboration like this in the sector, we’ll achieve better outcomes—not only for clients but also for advisors. Advisors will feel more successful and confident in their work when they have a stronger network of expertise to draw upon.

DEBORAH: Yeah, I really appreciate that. This is exactly why I wanted to bring this conversation to PPI and the podcast. I knew these collaborations were happening out there, and I wanted to spotlight them as examples of how advisors can work together, leveraging their unique strengths. It’s clear from your work that each of you has a distinct role and a strong commitment to collaborating on behalf of the client. Could you share more about what it takes to create these successful collaborations? What factors are most important to achieving success in these partnerships?

STEPHANIE: I think one of the fundamental aspects of successful collaborations is something deeply tied to philanthropy itself—our willingness to partner and share information for the greater good. I love the conversations Betsy and I have where I bring my experience from working at a financial institution, including tax strategies and technical insights on using different assets for giving. In turn, Betsy shares examples of her hands-on work with families in the field. What’s also needed is a willingness to broaden these conversations to include areas that might not seem immediately connected to philanthropy. For example, I once had a conversation with a property and casualty consultant about a client’s collectibles. At first, it didn’t seem like a philanthropic discussion, but as we talked, it became clear that the family might want to donate or sell the collection since the next generation wasn’t interested in keeping it. That led us to ask, “From a philanthropic perspective, how can we help this family? Who are the right resources to involve? What information can I provide to support this process?” If we, as advisors, continue to engage with one another—whether we’re financial advisors, philanthropic advisors, or consultants in other fields—and actively share our expertise, everyone benefits. By partnering and learning from each other, we can provide better outcomes for families. The ripple effects can even extend to nonprofits, ultimately helping the entire sector rise together. Betsy, I’d love to hear your thoughts and examples on this as well.

BETSY: I’ll echo a lot of what you just said, Stephanie. I think being in learning spaces together and maintaining a mindset of continuous learning is so important. I love, and I think many in the PPI community would agree, engaging with others to discuss what they’re reading, the challenges they’re facing, and how they’re overcoming those challenges. Sharing case studies is particularly valuable. It helps us understand not only the technical needs of our clients but also the adaptive challenges they’re navigating. These insights can highlight where diverse expertise might have lightened the burden on the client during difficult times. Open dialogue is critical because, as we all know, things rarely go perfectly. It’s important to course-correct together as we move forward. At Arabella, one of our key focuses is generating research and rigorous insights to expand the shared knowledge base—understanding what challenges clients face and identifying tools that are truly impactful. Many others in the field are doing this important work, and having access to shared data and insights benefits everyone. Let me share a quick example to illustrate the need for collaboration. We worked with a client who inherited a highly complex set of physical assets, including technical scientific equipment located on properties all over the world, many in varying states of disrepair. As a non-expert, this client faced a daunting task in preparing these assets for gifting. It required long-term, robust collaboration among the client, their family office, a trust and estate team, a legal team to execute agreements, and accountants to model scenarios around the physical and cash assets involved. Philanthropy also played a role, as the endowments accompanying these gifts needed careful planning. This was a heavy burden on the client, and the process stretched over a decade. In hindsight, had the collaboration between advisors begun earlier—with clear identification of the client’s needs and agreement on who could deliver specific expertise most effectively—we could have spared the client significant challenges. This example highlights the importance of adopting a collaborative mindset, especially as the complexities faced by clients continue to grow. By working together with new approaches and a willingness to embrace diverse expertise, we can deliver better outcomes for our clients and the philanthropic field as a whole.

DEBORAH: Yeah, I really appreciate that example and and both of you sharing what you have seen in your collaboration, and makes it all the better along the way, and then in the final outcome. I’m curious, before we get into a couple of our last questions, if there’s another client example that you want to share in which you both have collaborated?

STEPHANIE: Absolutely. There’s another great example of a family we’ve worked with together. This family is quite sophisticated in their grant-making but wanted to go deeper, broaden their impact, and achieve greater scale with their philanthropy. Through our conversations and needs assessment, we discovered they required an outsourced team to support their philanthropic efforts. They had a foundation that could support and fund staff, which worked out perfectly to bring in a dedicated team to assist them. One of their top priorities was aligning their investment dollars with their philanthropic goals through impact investing. This is where Arabella and BBR collaborated effectively. As an investment management firm, we focused on aligning their investments with their objectives, while Arabella contributed their expertise in philanthropy and strategy. Betsy, I’ll hand it over to you to share more details since Arabella has worked closely with this family for a long time.

BETSY: This was a family of next-generation inheritors who came from a rich philanthropic legacy. They had a strong understanding of what impactful giving could look like, even without having access to significant financial resources. They brought remarkable intellectual and social capacity to their work and were determined to adopt a strategic philanthropy mindset to achieve impact at scale, particularly in education. They began by taking a highly strategic, research-based approach to building their grant-making portfolio. As Stephanie mentioned, they quickly realized they wanted to augment their philanthropy with impact investing. This was a key area of collaboration between our two firms. While the BBR team specializes in impact investing, the family wanted to align their investments closely with their grant-making portfolio. Specifically, they were interested in making targeted private investments in educational technology for classrooms—investments that complemented their philanthropic goals. This deep partnership allowed us to develop a bespoke strategy that drove significant impact. The family also identified a specific gap in the education field where they realized their capital could uniquely make a difference. As a result, they launched an organization through a fiscal sponsorship entity, which became a sustainable nonprofit within two years. They essentially seed-funded an initiative that continues to create meaningful change. Despite their demanding schedules as busy professionals raising families, their clear vision and trust in our collaboration allowed them to achieve remarkable outcomes. The partnership between BBR and Arabella played a pivotal role in enabling them to deploy multiple strategies effectively. Their success is a testament to the value of collaboration between our firms, and it’s been incredibly rewarding to support their journey.

DEBORAH: I appreciate what you’ve both highlighted in that example. One is the importance of being able to have a resource to outsource for your clients if you don’t have that in house capacity. And so I appreciate that. And then also, you brought up the idea of philanthropy at scale. And so I’m wondering if you could share sort of what are the hallmarks of philanthropy at scale? 

STEPHANIE: Thanks, Deborah. For many of the clients we work with, they’ve reached a point where their wealth will outlive them—and likely the next generation as well. This often leads to the question: “How do I give back in a way that’s meaningful to me and can truly make a difference?” Sometimes, it’s as simple as them asking, “Can I do this? Is this idea or goal achievable? Can you help me?” To achieve philanthropy at scale, particularly in my role as a dot connector, it involves bringing together diverse perspectives, tools, and resources to address as many of the client’s objectives as possible. It’s about helping them turn their ideas into actionable projects. One example that stands out is a client who wanted to fund water wells in a challenging area of Western Africa. Their question was, “How do I do this? Can this really work?” My approach was to sit down with them and map out their available resources. We discussed vehicles like donor-advised funds, IRAs, and their foundation, and how these could be leveraged. In this case, the solution involved connecting them with an international intermediary that had the expertise and structure needed to manage the complexities—such as expenditure reporting and equivalency determinations. This enabled the client to deploy the philanthropic dollars already stored in their donor-advised fund and get the project moving. To me, this is a great example of philanthropy at scale: helping clients activate resources that are already in place, or inspiring them to give more, in ways that align with their values and make them feel fulfilled. Betsy, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. I can share more examples as well, but this one is definitely a favorite.

BETSY: Yeah. And I think philanthropy at scale—and I’ll flip it a little bit to also talk about what prevents philanthropy from getting to scale. I mean, philanthropy at scale is people spending, at a minimum, the dollars that they should be spending every year. And when I say “should be,” it’s the plan of what they want to do—the aspiration for what they can achieve. When we see clients or donors get really excited about what they’re doing, and they see the impact and feel the impact, they want to do more and more. They get really fired up—not just about getting dollars to the right places, but also about deploying their intellectual, social, and political capital to move the needle on important issues. Many people in philanthropy come from entrepreneurial, innovative backgrounds, and they can see pathways that others might not. When you combine that with really smart community leaders who infuse the process, it becomes incredibly powerful. But sadly, we’re not seeing philanthropic capital moving at the level it could be. For some people, that’s their choice, but recent research conducted by Arabella—funded by the Gates Foundation and done in partnership with the National Center for Family Philanthropy and ideas42—shows that donors really want to be giving. Many have strong intrinsic motivation, but certain barriers are blocking them from reaching scale. I think this is a call for more rigor in our field and more collaboration across domains to help people navigate the challenges they’re facing. We’re living in a time when the processing burden is higher than ever, with so much information and complexity coming at us. I’m not an ultra-high-net-worth individual, but even I feel this in my day-to-day life. For our clients, this is likely amplified. The enormity of today’s societal problems can feel big and intractable, which drives binary thinking in the field. This makes finding solutions more complex and makes conversations within families, marriages, or partnerships even harder. While we have more connections to people and ideas than ever before, we often lack deep, meaningful connections. This causes many to get stuck—not operating at a strategic level or even at a basic giving level they aspire to. So, I think it’s critically important, given the need in the world, to focus on how we can help more people work at scale and engage in strategic philanthropy.

DEBORAH: Absolutely. I think that research is so important for those of us in this field to understand what it will take to get the money out the door and make a greater impact. Because, at the end of the day, that’s what we—at least those of us who are philanthropy advisors—are striving for with our clients, right? If we can support that by helping clients overcome obstacles, collaborating with their existing advisory team, and becoming part of the solution, then all the better. I’ve really enjoyed this conversation—it’s been so insightful to hear about what you’re both doing individually and together. I’m curious: do either of you have a summary statement or final thoughts you’d like to share about our discussion today?

STEPHANIE: This was such a rich conversation, and I always learn something from being part of discussions like this. It also reminded me of something that may feel basic—especially when we work with clients of the wealth level we do—but it applies at any level of wealth. Simply bringing up the conversation with the client, no matter your technical role, is incredibly valuable. Asking just one additional question that goes beyond the financial aspect of the conversation—questions like, “Are you giving? How are you giving? Do you want to do less? Do you want to do more?”—can unlock so many other discussions and open the door to additional resources in the field. We’re all out here—whether at another advisory firm, as philanthropic advisors like Betsy, or in other roles—and we’re open to sharing our expertise. I think it all starts with that first conversation: “What are your goals? What do you want to achieve with your philanthropy? How can we help?”

DEBORAH: I love that. Thank you, Stephanie, you. You got to start with the basics. Absolutely. Betsy, how about you?

BETSY: I don’t have too much to add, but I’ll quickly build on Stephanie’s comments. I think people can sometimes feel hesitant about these conversations because stepping outside of your domain can feel intimidating. But that’s where networks like PPI and similar groups can be invaluable—they give you a space to feel braver. Asking that extra question, even if it takes you into unfamiliar territory, is worth it. You can trust that there are knowledgeable people out there who can help you advance the conversation or take over where needed. I’ve connected with so many great folks through PPI. When I encounter a client need outside my area of expertise, I can confidently reach out to a dot connector like Stephanie, or someone like Steve Legler, or any of the amazing professionals in this network. They’re always ready with tips and guidance to help you move the conversation forward with your clients.

DEBORAH: Yes, such a great addition, Betsy. Thank you! And what a wonderful plug for the Purposeful Planning Institute community, which is so rich in resources. Thank you both, Stephanie and Betsy, for joining me today for this conversation. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much!